The EU Referendum

[Lord_Chris 251]

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Chris, you still talk as if England owns everything which belongs to UK.

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This is definitely not the case, I certainly don't think England owns everything in the UK at all. I believe we're all equal not matter which part of the UK we come from.

 

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Also, you keep talking like one has completely no benefits of EU, which is not true.

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Well personally, I really do not see a single benefit of being a member of the EU. I've looked into this for a very long time now, and I really cannot see a single benefit of being a member, it's all disadvantages. However, I'm speaking from the point of view from the UK. If you're in another country, or a poorer country, then you will have a lot of benefits because you'll receive a lot more funding. But from the UK's point of view, it's a terrible organisation to be in, with no advantages at all.

 

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You are all influenced by your media, and you know what you "need" to know.

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Actually, the media are VERY biased to remain, every single news channel, most the Newspapers, most officials, nearly all Politicians. etc. I'm surprised that we left considering just how biased they all are - Sky, ITV, BBC, all terribly biased.

 

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You also mentioned law - why would they have to invent everything right now on their own, they can simply keep having the laws from UK, and later just change some of them if they will.

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I never said they would have to create all their laws from scratch, what I meant is that they'd have to create all their own laws by themselves, and not have any of ours, maybe it was bad wording on my part.

 

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Regarding studies, isn't there a possibility for some of the best students to get scholarship?

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Yes. But this isn't a large amount and doesn't even cover all expenses, it covers approximately around ?2,000 for a single year, or over a two year period. So when you compare that to the ?9,000 or ?10,000 tuition fees, it's not an awful lot.

 

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I would also like to add that you cannot compare Scotland to Turkey or Macedonia.

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I'm not comparing Scotland to Turkey or Macedonia; what I said is that they will probably need to wait a similar amount of time before they actually will have joined the EU properly.

 

For now, I'll leave this discussion open, as @Lord__Ship says, it is useful for people. But if it does degenerate into name calling, etc (which was where I feared it was heading) then I will close it. I respect everyone's opinion, even if I don't agree with it, I only hope people do mine too.

[Lord__Ship 7]

Ah, those poor bankers and stock market gamblers.. don't you feel sorry for them?? Their dreams of making even bigger fortunes have been interrupted by Brexit.

They must be suffering so badly and may even have to hock their yachts.

My heart goes out to them maybe we should all take a banker to lunch today.

How awful it is now that the British will have to go back to making their own decisions.

LS

[EaglePrince 230]

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Well personally, I really do not see a single benefit of being a member of the EU. I've looked into this for a very long time now, and I really cannot see a single benefit of being a member, it's all disadvantages. However, I'm speaking from the point of view from the UK. If you're in another country, or a poorer country, then you will have a lot of benefits because you'll receive a lot more funding. But from the UK's point of view, it's a terrible organisation to be in, with no advantages at all.

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There is also another point of view from poorer countries - that only advantages from EU have those rich countries. EU makes rules which have to be obeyed by produces (of whatever), and producers from richer countries have more resources to satisfy those rules. Villagers from poorer countries don't have money to buy some equipment which is expensive from them, plus they don't get any help from the state which hardly manages to help itself and its bureaucrats ("poor bureaucrats").

 

Of course, I don't say that it is true. Those who talk about this somehow avoid to tell how it comes that out villagers cannot compete with those from richer countries when we have cheaper workforce, while products of both of them are sold by almost the same price...

 

I just pointed this example how there are so many of them convincing people how EU is "bad for you" in your country and in mine, but by opposite arguments. So we certainly have some demagoguery here, but people can bite it because they don't know all of the facts, they know what they were served...

 

And still, I cannot say for sure whether EU is bad for us or not. One you surely noticed - I would really love to see European peoples united and acting together! I am sure you feel the same, the only question which remains is whether EU as it is today is exactly what we want or something else. From what it is supposed to be, we should only have benefits from it - working together, exchanging our goods without customs, ensuring that what is sold to us is of better quality, etc... Of course, there is a "danger" that one of the members could become poor at certain moment, and people from there could start leaving that country to other European countries. But even in that case - the reason why this country became poor may be because of EU, would that be fair to leave that people behind, like "we bough your resources, we sucked all your blood, now get lost"...

 

So, there is that other purpose of EU - to unite countries together. Is that worth sacrificing... Keep in mind that if you don't offer them something, they may just turn to other great powers, such as China or Russia... What do Ukrainians fight for... Would that be what you want... Though I do not question UK's point when it comes protecting their borders.

[Lord_Chris 251]

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And still, I cannot say for sure whether EU is bad for us or not. One you surely noticed - I would really love to see European peoples united and acting together! I am sure you feel the same, the only question which remains is whether EU as it is today is exactly what we want or something else

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Yes - I'd like Europe to unite together and work to help tackle different problems .etc, but NOT through political union, which is all the EU stands for.

 

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From what it is supposed to be, we should only have benefits from it - working together, exchanging our goods without customs, ensuring that what is sold to us is of better quality, etc... Of course, there is a "danger" that one of the members could become poor at certain moment, and people from there could start leaving that country to other European countries.

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This was originally its origins, but since it was created tariffs have gone down considerably and it no longer makes sense to not make your own trade deals .etc. It's a mistake to join today, in my opinion. It's a good thing that we've left.

[Mathew Steel 151]

As I predicted, Plaid Cymru (The Party of Wales) are discussing making Wales independent. Not sure how I feel about it. On one hand, being united with England, Scotland and Northern Ireland is great. I like the feeling of being able to say we are all part of the UK. On the other hand, would Wales do better alone? Personally, I don't think so. If we leave the UK, we should join the EU once again, if not, then we should remain in the UK. I can't see Wales doing well alone.

 

EDIT: Chris just asked in PM what the general opinion is in Wales. As far as I know, from personal experience, Plaid Cymru never really gets anywhere. They promise a lot of things they don't accomplish.?

 

If I had my choice, I'd stay in the UK (regardless of what I previously said) we cannot afford to keep splitting up from one another.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Mathew Steel

[Crusader1307 298]

Another dumb question from "The Yank" (my Southern blood hates that). Wales was independent before England. Why do you thinkshe could not now? England said that about The US once........

[Mathew Steel 151]

I believe the last time Wales was independent was before 1282, after Llywelyn ein Llyw Olaf (Our Last Prince, Llywelyn) died during an English conquest. Times of course are completely different now.

[Crusader1307 298]

True. But many resisted the Marcher Lords for many years still. My point is it is not like you are leaving as enemies. You just wish to someday develop into your own Welsh identity (not that you aren't ?now). Vote. If the majority wishes to stay or leave so be it.

[Mathew Steel 151]

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True. But many resisted the Marcher Lords for many years still. My point is it is not like you are leaving as enemies. You just wish to someday develop into your own Welsh identity (not that you aren't ?now). Vote. If the majority wishes to stay or leave so be it.

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That's a good point, however, Welsh identity is fading very quickly. A small minority cannot even speak the language. A large majority know nothing of our history. People think their own language sounds "silly." As a Welsh speaker myself, it's very saddening to see. And I fear if we leave the UK, what is left of us??

[EaglePrince 230]

Well, yeah, I agree it would be bad to split any country, and so it applies in this case with Wales and UK.

 

Regarding Welsh language, maybe Welsh being independent could change that. Actually, that could be changed anyway - with education. I think you should be proud of your language, you are one of the original Britons, and this is the language which was spoken before Saxons landed on Britain. One could say "it's history, it means nothing", but it is a lot - you are "the true descendants of King Arthur", not those who speak English as their native language. You are what is left of Celts! I could keep numbering reasons why people in your country should proudly speak their language, but I guess I could stop here. I'm sad that it's the current state in your country. I hope it will get better. For some reason people nowadays appreciate what is modern and "what is cool", but in my opinion it is mostly a matter of educations.

[Mathew Steel 151]

Everyone in Wales has the option to go to a Welsh school for free and learn in Welsh. I did it, I have lots of friends who have done it, many famous people have done it. But for some reason, parents choose against it. It makes no sense to me. I'll be making sure my own children are taught in Welsh, and if that's not an option, I'll teach them Welsh myself.

[EaglePrince 230]

I hope that it won't come to that, as whatever people thought, not allowing kids to learn in their native language would be against their civil right (or however you call it). Here where I live there are many schools in which minorities learn in their native languages.

[Crusader1307 298]

This is too bad. The Welsh language is amazing. I wouldn't even attempt it (I tried Gaelic once - way worse). I'll stick to Latin.

Too bad most people in Wales don't embrace their history and language.......

[Mathew Steel 151]

I believe it's one of those languages that you need to learn from a young age to fully understand it. It has a lot of grammar rules, mutation of words. For example:

 

Front = Blaen

The front = Y flaen

 

The b changes to an f if the correct mutational determiners are in front of it.?

 

Anyhow, I'd be interested to learn more about your language Eagle, it sounds like it's also rather complex :)

[EaglePrince 230]

Well, yeah, we also have similar rules, and it would be really a mess for someone who tries to learn it. We have seven cases of nous, and it works similar as in Latin language. I suppose in many cases it is easy to learn, but we have rules about changing voices while changing a noun through cases. Sometimes we skip some letters, and sometimes we change some voices, such as when D switches to T. Even I make a mistake now and then, and my girlfriend corrects me. :D But if you want to learn such a language, you can easily learn it enough so we could understand you, and so you could understand us as well, while by the time you would learn it better. I'd say that compared to our languages, English is a paradise - like it was invented to be learned easily. :)

[Crusader1307 298]

The problem with ?American English is that is was somewhat bastardized from "The Kings English" ( or Queens). Coupled with regional and National slang, It can be very tough for a Foreigner. I often admire other Nations who can learn languages very quickly (due to their exposure to multiple other Nations). I used to be somewhat good at German, Japanese and a smattering of Korean. I flunked French and Spanish in School! Classical Latin has helped me understand a great bit when I "see" another language. This exception is of course Russian and any Oriental tongues.

[Mathew Steel 151]

Honestly the only difference I notice between American English and British English is spelling. Armour to armor and so on. I notice a lot of the slang too "ya'll" and so on. Without meaning to cause offence, I really hate that word, it makes me cringe whenever I see or hear it. Also past tense verbs, in American English, it's common to say burned, whereas British English, it's more common to say burnt.

 

I learnt French in school, I'm nowhere near fluent, but I can understand it a lot more than I can speak it. It's an excellent thing to be able to speak several languages, I often feel ashamed of myself going to countries and not knowing any of their native tongue.

[Crusader1307 298]

"Ya'll" is actually a Southern slang. It is in the dictionary - despite much fighting against having it there. "Burnt" is a matter of poor usage. I never use it impropetly, but it is done in America -a lot!

Having served in several Countries, as most Soldiers do, we learn just enough to embarrass ourselves in polite company!

[Mathew Steel 151]

Either burnt or burned are acceptable as past tense verbs. It's just more common to say burnt here in the UK as far as I know!

[EaglePrince 230]

That's interesting, I thought knowing Latin could help you in learning Russian (or any other Slavic language). I mean, the languages are far from similar, but what is really interesting to me - grammars of the two languages have a lot of that in common.

[Lord__Ship 7]

It will all work out well for Britain eventually. Once the bankers and big corporations work the angles again for their financial advantage - it won't take them long - they are very clever at turning a profit. They'll just use the their media outlets to tell you that everything's okay and people will happily borrow more and get further in debt, making their banks and big biz profits rise to astronomical heights again and stocks markets will get back to 'normal'.

 

If Wales does succeed, what will happen to the Prince of Wales?

He burnt the toast and the fire burned down his house?

 

LS

[Charles of Tours 69]

Politics on a gaming forum? My first thought was: "And it isn't a flame war? Quick, call the media, they'll call it GamerGate!" And my second thought was: "Nobody invited me ..." :P

 

I posted something on my Facebook wall the day after #Brexit. I thought I'd share it here, because people from both sides of the political "fence" seemed to agree with me. Just to preface this, I am a proud Donald Trump supporter, and I'm not pointing fingers for fun - if you follow the money, you can almost always smell the Clinton family or Soros behind it, pulling strings.

 

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Dear fellow Americans freaking out over Brexit,

Unless you have dual-citizenship with the UK, it isn't your problem. If anything we should be happy to expect cheaper Jaguars and Rolls-Royces since the EU is a wagon circle when it comes to trading with other countries.

 

Whether Brits are for free trade or protectionism, neither option is viable in the mafia-like control the EU paragons have over the economies of member nations. Keep in mind that the EU parliament, made up of elected MPs from the member nations, holds very little power. Real control in the EU is held by various committees which are run by appointed - not directly elected - officials. Basically, European citizens have no say in the European government.

 

Another important thing to note are the shift in the values of stocks and gold. Probably temporary, as worried people "cash in" and put their gold away. There's really no need to be worried, because it's the owners of big corporations who are manipulating the markets to cause panic and put a negative spin on Brexit. Who else have the resources to sway prices so drastically? I hope the market re-stabilizes over the next couple weeks, because it's the middle class and the lower echelon of the rich who are feeling the pinch now.

 

Stay cool, don't go the route of Clinton and Obama of trying to tell other countries what they can and can not do. The UK is one of the countries that, by the way, has not violated any UN treaty, human rights agreement, or the Geneva convention in its departure from the EU. It's very unprofessional, almost as unprofessional as Cameron "resigning" when really he should call for an election. It's all to delay his country's withdrawal from the EU and to prevent a surge in "extreme" parties like UKIP.

 

Keep your ears to the ground.

 

Sincerely,

Another nephew of Uncle Sam

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Since then I've heard that elections will be held "soon" in the UK. Having studied the Westminster model, I think it's fair to say Cameron is going to stretch this out for as long as possible until he runs out of his tax-paid salary from buying too many organic smoothies, or whatever he does. :)