Gun Laws

[Lord_Chris 251]

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when a member of my family needed an operation, her surgery was performed by an Indian doctor, a friend of my mother (who also works in the hospital) who came to the country to escape the crappy situation in his own at the time.

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People do generalise this, I completely agree. But they wrongly put the blame on all migrants, when in fact it's EU migrants that is the problem. Last year 184,000 EU migrants came to the UK and 188,000 non-EU migrants. If I'm honest, I don't believe these figures. An independent report, by I think The Express, revealed that migration had been undercounted by 1.2 million at least in the last five years.

 

Firstly if you take a look at those figures, you'll see that they're pretty much equal. The problem with this is that we have pretty much the same amount of our migration coming from 28 countries of only 500 million people as we do from the rest of the world. And we have no control of it. By remaining inside the EU, the racist immigration policy discriminates against anyone coming from anywhere else in the entire world makes it much more difficult to get qualified Doctors from India, like in your case when a member of your family needed care.

 

And instead of taking in more qualified Doctors from non-EU countries such as India, we're taking in unskilled migrants from the EU. This is one of the major problems at the moment in the UK, this massive oversupply of unskilled Labour. It's pushing down wages for ordinary workers, making it much more difficult to get on the housing ladder and is destroying our natural green spaces because they have to be built on to accommodate housing. In fact just to cope with the migration levels, we need to build a house every 4 minutes. Another fact is that we cannot prevent murders, rapists, or other criminals from the EU entering our country. What we've actually seen, is that many criminals have entered the UK and committed more appalling crimes here. Just a week or so ago, there was a report which showed 50 EU criminals we couldn't deport.

 

As the crisis in the EU and the Eurozone gets worse, then more of those citizens will come over to the UK. And this has been a continuing trend since 2008 and the financial crash.

 

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What I am saying is that people aren't sympathetic. It's morally wrong to assume people do this just to cause trouble, some, not all, are doing so because they are scared and desperate.

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I am sympathetic, to genuine refugees. But all the migrants who have just walked in the EU are illegally entering it - and these typically are the ones shown in Greece or Calais who riot, cause trouble .etc, these fit in the 80% figure that are economic migrants I cited earlier.

 

And these are typically not the ones who the media show. But as @EaglePrince pointed out, these migrants don't claim asylum in the first country they go to, which they are supposed to do. They specifically mention they want to go to Germany, France, the UK ... or one particular country in the west. I think this is the problem which a lot of people see. For migrants to actually be able to enter the UK, they must have first reached another country, for example France - the Calais migrant camp. If these people were genuine refugees, they would have claimed asylum in France, but they specifically want to come to the UK. Another distinctive feature of the number of migrants who enter the EU is that they are usually young and male. If they were genuine refugees, they would likely take their entire family with them and would all cross over.

 

You only need to take a look at the situation in Greece and the EU-Turkey deal where for every economic migrant in Greece returned to Turkey, one genuine refugee will be returned to Greece from Turkey. In return, Turkey's membership of the EU is being fast-tracked, they are being given 6 billion euros, and from July this year they should have visa free access to the Schengen area of the EU (it's being voted on a few days after the referendum I think).

 

In theory, this is only for six months, although many will claim family reunion .etc., and they will never be seen again. But at a time where in a poll 8% of Turks sympathised with Islamic State, and in another poll by The Express, 12 million Turks said they would come to the UK if they were able to, this is a terrible mistake. If only 1% of Turks sympathise with IS, then that is still 120,000 potential terrorists from those 12 million alone - and it only took three of four to carry out atrocities in Paris and Belgium.

[Mathew Steel 151]

I understand your points now. In no way do I think that we should allow all the people that want to come into the country, to come into the country. It's too risky and without a doubt would cause some issues. I'm glad you elaborated on your points. I suppose you and I are on the same page. I sympathise with genuine refugees, who genuinely just want help and safety. But there are too many things happening right now to allow all the people to get their own way.

[Mathew Steel 151]

Huge news. US lawmakers will finally vote on gun reform. I can't believe it.

 

The vote will be to implement two new laws:

 

- Banning people on the terror watch list from getting firearms

 

- Expanding background checks for gun shows and internet sales

 

 

I still believe more could be done. But without a doubt, this is a step in the right direction.

[Lord__Ship 7]

The USA's gun laws were created to give give people not only the freedom to own guns to kill each other' but to prevent any 'invaders' having the upper hand.

Now that every nutjob in the USA has a gun/s, it's virtually impossible to stop the 'law abiding' citizens from protecting themselves from these nutters with restrictive gun laws.

There are laws to prevent certain people from owning a firearm however it has to be proven under those laws that these people are committing a crime. Mental instability is NOT a crime and so very little can be done.

It's rather like the medieval times the ruling class did anything they want to the peasants. ?America changed all that by allowing everyone to own a gun. Naturally with so many guns around there is 'collateral' damage... Too bad, arm yourself and fight back!

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The Paris concert shooting took place in a city where guns are forbidden and they have extremely tough laws to prevent gun ownership.. ?

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I don't own a gun and have no wish to live in the USA. The USA is a wonderfully free but scary place. The future of the world looks grim indeed but it's just another phase in history and we need to go thru another 'crusade' and win overwhelmingly to get back to hoping for world peace. I'm not long for this world but you are, and you are going to see/experience things I wish I could protect you from, but your xbox games provide you with what will be a truth. World anarchy is around the corner.

LS

[Crusader1307 298]

On behalf of all the wonderful and scary Americans, thank you. Although the primary reason was to defend ourselves against Native Americans, The French and of course The English. (Lol) The "killing ourselves" comes much later.........

 

As I have said, I am a firearms owner (and carried one for work) as scary as that sounds.

You would be amazed at the number of citizens that don't own them and don't want too either. HOWEVER it is always the nuts, radicals and related psychopaths who do and get the Press.?

 

Now I purposely stayed away from this several weeks long discussion for a reason. But as "Michael Corleon" said in "The Godfather"........"They keep pulling me back in".

[Mathew Steel 151]

But those psychopaths shouldn't have had the chance to legally purchase a gun anyway!?

 

I'm not generalising, but there are people in the US that will happily throw Muslims out of their country because they are a threat, yet believe people with mental illnesses should have the right to buy a gun. It isn't logical!

 

Again, Crusader, I am not speaking of the US as a whole. I am fully aware there are law biding citizens who own guns and (fingers crossed) have never and will never have to shoot it at someone. It's just tragic to see it happen when it does.

[Crusader1307 298]

Generally, most Americans can get culturally and racially biased. As for Muslims, it due to 9/11. They perceive or are told who an enemy is and there it goes. I can't readily tell you why we are like that. Even Muslim-Americans get dragged into that (which isn't right either).

 

Unless a mentally ill person has a file (pass arrests, etc) - The System just assumes.... (again this is wrong).

 

Another telling issue is that most Americans dislike their Government probing that deep into their affairs (regardless if it is justified or not). This is another example of how much "freedom" is actually our birthright.?

 

You can be sure from a Historians point of view that the framers of our Constitution had no idea that Government would become so near sighted with gun control laws. They probably never imagined that basic common sense would be so twisted out of shape to begin with.?

 

If they were still alive, do you think that they would have amended the 2nd Amendment? Sure they would've. ?I don't think in their wildest imagination they envisioned mass shootings as a "way of life".?

 

Only the people can change the law and this can only be done through election. Unfortunately, ?most Citizens don't vote. And when they do, it is from "off the hip" emotion.

Personally, I would fire both Houses and start afresh. Believe it or not, this was us what American Statesman Thomas Jefferson said for us to do IF the Government got to complacent.?

[Mathew Steel 151]

I think the world needs a reboot lol.?

 

Joking aside, I appreciate the open minded approach you have, Crusader. It's a shame there aren't more people like you. I mean everywhere, not strictly America.

[Crusader1307 298]

I am very strange for your average American. Having the good benefits of living all over my Country as well as Europe and The Far East (during my early years) was a great help in this. I call it as it is seen. Right or wrong, my Country or another. "Rebel" ...Tis an honorable name! (Lol)

[EaglePrince 230]

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I think the world needs a reboot lol.?

 

Joking aside, I appreciate the open minded approach you have, Crusader. It's a shame there aren't more people like you. I mean everywhere, not strictly America.

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Haha, it needs a clean install. :D

[Nigel 71]

LOL

While I have not contributed much here, I am glad to see that you guys are keeping your sense of humour. :D

Edited June 29, 2016 by Lord_Chris
Removed unnecessary quote of previous post

[Lord__Ship 7]

The world is about to get a new operating system that does not run your computer... it's called sharia law!

LS?

[EaglePrince 230]

Why do you mean sharia law?

Edited June 29, 2016 by Lord_Chris
Removed unnecessary quote of previous post

[Mathew Steel 151]

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The world is about to get a new operating system that does not run your computer... it's called sharia law!

LS?

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I hope that wasn't a reference to immigrants, or Islam attempting to "take over."

[EaglePrince 230]

I hope not, but I could just say that I believe that once people have their occupation (their work), and when they can live well, they will not care about religion. If you go around destroying countries, you can only expect from them to fight you back the only way they can, and that would not be the way you would prefer. Look at all those countries in Near East - they were better with their dictators then it is now. Those were countries of educated and well living people, just look at Libya. Now there is chaos, and what is more - this is effecting Europe as well.

[Charles of Tours 69]

The US is framed to look like a horrible place because of its fairly open gun laws, compared to much of the rest of the world. However, we could look at Switzerland, which is a much smaller country, but the gun-to-person ratio there is very high - yet you see no mass shootings. California is a very far-left state in the Union, and they had a gun turn-in day a while back, which resulted in an increase in criminal activity.

 

I live in Massachusetts which is also a very "progressive" state. I can't say much about other states, but as a man who is certified to hunt and use firearms by the Commonwealth's Division of Fisheries and Wildlife, and by a State Police firearms instructor, I feel I can offer some insight about gun laws in my state.

 

In Mass. you need to take a course from a certified instructor in firearms operation, one specifically for handgun and pistol safety if you intend to carry a concealed firearm (no open carry in this state). You need to be 18+ to apply for your FID (Firearms Identification) card which allows you to buy, sell (with limits), transport (i.e. to a gun show or to a hunting destination), and legally use rifles, shotguns, and "long guns". You need to be 21+ to apply for your LTC-A (License to Carry [firearms]) which applies to buying, selling (with limits), using, and carrying pistols and handguns. You no longer need a permit to use pepperspray / Mace but using it counts as "discharging ammunition" which can land you at the mercy of the judge if you don't have your FID card.

 

I've been to a gun show, and let me tell you: there is no "gun show loophole" when it comes to buying guns. You need your FID or LTC-A (depending on what you want to buy) and it needs to be valid. Besides the courses (none of which are free, that I know of, and run into $100+), the police conduct extensive background checks and there's a bit of a waiting period to make sure you don't break any laws in the mean time. It's supposed to take 2-3 weeks but it took about 5-6 months, probably because I have no record (besides being a member of the Republican Party :P).

 

Not to mention, it can be a pane in the glass (Stronghold reference ;)) if the local police chief or politicians in charge like to apply their own interpretation to laws and how long waiting periods should be. It's very painful seeing the neglect towards treatment of legal (and would-be) firearm owners, because they usually want to own for reasons of their own protection, and the safety of their family.

 

In addition, *any* violation of the laws on the books can land you into hot water. Like, having your firearm not "concealed enough" could result in a permanent loss to your LTC-A if the judge finds it appropriate with police suggestion. The hunting laws are also very strictly enforced. If only the drug laws were carried out with equal dedication ...

 

As for use, unless you're hunting, the only place you can use your firearm against another living being (essentially) is inside your own house. Not even on other parts of your property. Even then, all firearms used will be confiscated as police evidence, and your license to purchase may be frozen, which basically puts you at risk (especially if you live in a high-risk neighborhood for crime).

 

When it comes to gun crime ... the whole "if you couldn't use guns you'd use X" is both true and wrong. I imagine it's easier to buy illegally than legally in this state because of all the criminal activity, although I never have. But this is also the state where the Boston bombings happened, any they used pressure cookers - we can't make those illegal, can we? It's not a gun problem, it's a problem with people not respecting other people and their lives. We could get down to the reasons why, but that's a whole other topic. :)