Outposts in skirmish maps?

[Lord Vetka 63]

I will send the map shortly, I tried again last night against the Snake, this time I gave myself an outpost, and yet again I got my but handed to me, pretty sad when your ally outlasts you=) And against one Snake! Extreme!

 

I will send both maps, I put an outpost in for you on one of the maps.

 

Did you get a chance to check the last set of maps that I sent you? one was a Crusader map to see if that is what you were looking for, and the other 3 maps "Ivrkhard" multi maps with one map giving 2 Euro outposts to each enemy.

[EaglePrince 230]

I will try to revenge you, my friend. :)

 

I didn't have time to check those maps, but I hope I will be able to do that this evening. :) Or maybe tommorow.

[Lord Vetka 63]

Revenge was sweet, I played against the Snake again last night, I played with an outpost and used the powers.

 

In the beginning my Ally was in trouble so I sent a dozen swordsmen to his keep and used the power to make 10 Knights that I sent over, he did not last long. My outpost was producing cats that were no use to me, so I took the engineers out of the cats and made ballistas with them, and had about a dozen of them protecting my keep.

 

On the keep and the one tower I had a mix of range units, I never used any walls, mostly walls of troops, my outpost was making swordsmen and knights, as well as spearmen and archers, and the power bar was put to use, mostly for gold but when the enemy was getting into the right side of my keep I would make mase men and drop them into the enemy as well as a few sets of Knights.

 

With steady streams of enemy troops heading to my keep, I finally had a chance to start making an army to take the Snake out with, I made 60 horse archers and 60 assassins, they were on the left side of my keep and had to be moved through the steady stream of enemy troops, so I sent the horse archers out first to help clear the way and followed with the assassins, when I reached the right side of the Snakes castle it did not take to long to finish him off, I just had to time my assassins to reach the keep when no enemy troops were going through, I did hit a group of archers and slaves with an arrow volley, then the Snake fell and sweet victory was mine, Yeah!

[EaglePrince 230]

I will attemt to accomplish the same this evening, only without using powers. :) By the way, you didn't say, who did you choose to be your ally?

 

It was a really nice battle there, I can see. :)

[EaglePrince 230]

I have just finished my fight! It was really hard, I had to start the mission two times. I was playing with Pig as my ally, and against Wazir. In the first attempt I failed to win, as I underestemated the opponent in one moment. I had it under control, but in some moment, I had lost some crossbowmen from the walls, and the attacking army was massive... They didn't enter the castle, but those army was destroying my economy and everything I had outside the castle walls. I was getting less wheat, less iron, no stone, and no wood, while some buildings were in fire... Before I came into this situation, I attemped to destroy his outposts with my knights, but that was a complete failure -I destroyed only one outpost. After that I was not able to build such an army again, and send it to do this task.

 

In the second attempt I was training crossbowmen all the time, as I was worried I might get in the same possition, as in the first attempt, and I had to use some more tactic... Crossbowmen and mangonels simply weren't enough! I also build few trebuchets inside my castle, so I could throw cows at the enemy army! In this second attempt, I didn't send knights alone - I had to this in smarter way as well! I trained knights again, but I sent lots of swordsmen and catapults as well. This was way more effective, and this way I managed to destroy the outposts, and then it was all way easier. There were only two more of them left, but I have returned for them soon, after what I finished my castle. Later, I have sent an army to kill Wazir, which was not a difficult task, as he was weakened a lot after losing the outposts.

 

Speakinga bout my ally - I wasn't able to save him, and I believe there is no way to do it - at lest if you start the game with 4.000 gold and without using powers... I agree it is sometimes easier to defend someone else then your own castle, as this way your economy is not being effected, but Wazir manages to kill him too soon, after what I'm left alone...

 

This is my castle, and those are the walls that withstanded massive attacks! In his peak, Wazirs army had more then 1.500 men.

 

 

For all those who didn't play this map yet, I suggest them to download it, as soon as it is available in the downloads section, and wage this glorious battle! The map is called Abertine!

[Lord Vetka 63]

Sounds like you've had an Extreme battle, congrats on winning against the Wazer, I finally managed to win against the Snake, I would feel bad about that except we are not fighting 1 AI it's the 8 outposts that make it hard.

 

Having the Ally is not really an asset, I couldn't keep him alive, but it did give me a chance to build my defenses before I became the target, a good challenge to keep your Ally alive until you defeat the enemy. I gave Fredrick a try, he was a bit slow getting started. He might be my next opponent, I wonder if there is any difference in how each AI would use the outposts.

 

Nice strong castle you built, bristling with crossbows, is this the map with no outpost? I had to use the outpost, with not building a castle and having only 1 tower and no walls makes it more interesting, the cats were useless, so I took the engineers out of them and made ballistas to defend my keep along with troops from the outpost.

 

Taking out the outposts is not easy but it is effective, against the Snake I never went after the outposts, instead, after I managed to get the defenses under control, I made 60 horse archers and 60 assassins, I had them on the left side of my keep and had to move them through the heavy streams of invaders to get over to the right side of the Snakes castle, then a little timing and a few vollies of arrows later and victory was mine.

 

I did use the powers, mostly for the gold and a few times when the enemy got into the right side of my keep, I dropped Masemen and some Knights into them along with my range units it was fine.

 

After testing the map and now your response, I would say the map is not to hard, it would be ready to post it the way it is, do you agree? Maybe I'll add a second map with only 6 outposts, just tone it down a bit.

 

Now an idea for a new map, same idea but make 2 enemy keeps with 4 outposts each and maybe try having 2 Allies one on each side of you, so many possibilities.

[EaglePrince 230]

It was a great fight, I'd call it an epic battle! :) It took me some time win the game. You may see it by the year from the screenshot...

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Having the Ally is not really an asset

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I wouldn't agree at this one... There are more possibilities - this time the ally was the first target, but it could have happened that the enemy attacks you first. As far as I saw, in this case your ally does help you a lot, as he sends some men between you too, so you have less to worry about that side of your castle! This way, you have more oasis which is easier to defend. Also, you get more stone. So, it is a nice thing to have an ally - he may give you some time to prepare for massive attacks, or he may help you defending your quarries, woodcutters in the west, and farms west of your castle.

 

As about different opponents - I believe there is no significant difference between those, if we speak about controlling troops from his outposts. In the other hand, some opponents will be way harder to kill just like that. For example, Snake will always use spearmen and archers to defend his castle, and he would never send some swordsmen to his own keep. :( Also, there will certainly be differences in attacks - some would build more trebuchets and catapults, some would use more fire ballistae, and some would use none of those. But if we wanted to feel those differences, we would have to give the enemy more resources. He must be able to build as mush quarries as he wants, as mush mines as he want, and oasis, of course... If he need iron to produce weapons, but he has to buy it, he would be building less siege weapons as well.

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Nice strong castle you built, bristling with crossbows, is this the map with no outpost? I had to use the outpost, with not building a castle and having only 1 tower and no walls makes it more interesting, the cats were useless, so I took the engineers out of them and made ballistas to defend my keep along with troops from the outpost.

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Thanks, it was a great castle. :) And it had even more crossbowmen. I had then so much - many of them were placed on the wall, as towers were full. On this image, great part of those troops were sent from the walls, so they could protect farms and quarries, as they were not necessary on castle walls anymore. I know I had more than 300 crossbowmen at some moment! And, no, this is the map with outpost. I don't know if I would make it without outpost, without using the powers... I may try later, but I believe that if I fought without outposts, I would have to attempt to win the game in the same way you did - going around his army with some men, and send them directly to his keep to kill him. (swordsmen are my favorite troops, so I guess I would try to do it with them, and I would try to use rams or siege towers)

 

Yes, it is not too hard, it is just hard enough to be quite a challenge! :)

 

As about an idea for your next map... What do you think about placing the keep which is meant for human lord to be places in a valley? That would be a disadvantage, compared to a keep on high ground, but this way, one could dig a moat around his castle? :)

[Lord Vetka 63]

I'm happy to announce that "Abertine" has been posted for your enjoyment!

 

 

I guess my wording was a bit strong, the Ally is an asset, he gives you a chance to build and could be a fun challenge to keep him alive until the win, and like you said, he does attack.

 

The next map will be a little more towards making the AI a little stronger, 2 Allied enemies side by side with more than enough resources and 4 outposts each, and as you asked low ground for you to dig in and 2 Allies on either side of you.

[EaglePrince 230]

These days we we're playing extreme games against computer opponents by giving them the outposts, while we would start with more gold (4000 gold).

 

This is challenging cause this way you need to withstand attacks of greater armies... But what those attacks were lacking was organization. For some reason they were not collecting army and making well organized sieges - they just send their troops, and their defense is not as good as it could be. This is another idea of mine. :)

We can give them more gold, and give us an outpost (and also choose amount of army, and which soldiers we want to receive from the outpost - or outposts). This way, if you give them 40000 gold, you would have enough to build a good defenses - you can prepare yourself for the attacks, and also, when it comes to sieges - their castles will be better defended.

I must admit, Caliph was doing quite well with defense either way, but Wolf for example - for some reason, his castle is stronger if you give him more gold.

 

I am also submitting one extreme map right now. :) It's called Lavovi doline (Lions of the vale). That is the version without outposts.

 

Regards!

Edited July 29, 2014 by EaglePrince

[Lord Vetka 63]

It's to bad the AI would not make better use of the outposts, like you said they keep sending small groups to your castle and they don't use the outposts for any defenses, my allies cry about being attacked while a long line of their troops are heading out to attack the AI, go figure!

 

Your map is approved and is in the downloads.

 

A good looking map, I take it that you intend the player to take the SW spot, the river could use some green around it, water is rarely with out green on the shores, a few lions in there to mix things up a bit, I will play it with your recommendations later.

 

Over at HG some guys made custom AI castles that merged more than one castle together, maybe we could make something like that for Extreme.

 

There was a thread at HG where someone suggested making custom war scenarios for Extreme, I gave it a try but the AI will not repair damage to the castle and they do not use the outposts, the troops just stack up and go nowhere. It's the same as making a custom war scenario for Crusader, you can build an AI castle, but they will not repair it.

 

Anyway, good luck with your map!

[EaglePrince 230]

Some maps I uploaded were not created by myself in fact. I am not the only one who plays Stronghold Crusader in my family, but I surely the only who would submit any maps created. :) Nevertheless she would be willing to upload it, but she knows I would do that.

Also, I would write at each map who created the map - but speaking about those older ones, non of us remembers who exactly made each one of them. :) But for newer maps I will be writing "map created by ...", just like I wrote it at this one.

 

I would like to add that, although I didn't create this one, I was present while she was working on it. :D And yes, it was intended to play from SW spot, but it can be interesting if you take NW spot as well. There is little space, and little resources - it might be tough. I have started one game like that, but having Lionheart as my ally right next to me. It's working pretty nicely, although I could say - maybe easier that I expected. They are all attacking Lionheart, while I defend him, and if someone wants to attack me, he has to go near my allies stronghold, where is my army defending him.

 

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Over at HG some guys made custom AI castles that merged more than one castle together, maybe we could make something like that for Extreme.

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That's right, I do know about that. It seems like they put a lot of work to accomplish that, but those scenarios can turn out great! I played Four Brothers when Lord of Hell suggested it to me - pretty hard mission, and I must admit - I failed to win that one (with no using of portable shields - that's my motto :D ).

 

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There was a thread at HG where someone suggested making custom war scenarios for Extreme, I gave it a try but the AI will not repair damage to the castle and they do not use the outposts, the troops just stack up and go nowhere. It's the same as making a custom war scenario for Crusader, you can build an AI castle, but they will not repair it.

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It is possible to create a castle that AI would repair, and everything. I don't recall details maybe, but I believe one should create the (large) castle (for more AI's) on a skirmish map. Then save the map, create castles for those AI lords in AI editor, start the skirmish game, save the game, and move the .sav file to maps folder, and change the extension to .map, and probably to change the type of map from skirmish to custom war. It seems like a lot of work, but in the end, you have one legendary scenario map :) (although one cannot play it in variety of ways like we do with those extreme maps).

I would like to add that I am not certain about all details with, how to create a scenario like that, but it can be found at HG.

[Lord Vetka 63]

It's good to have more maps, fine if their not by you, you check them anyway, post away! And for the older ones that you can't remember who made them, as long as they are good maps and the original makers don't care, we won't, post them as yours!

 

It's an interesting way to build a map but making it so 3 Lords can work one large castle is hard and time consuming, I did try it once, but it did not work out so well, maybe I should try again when I have more time.

 

Yes "Four Brothers" is a hard map, I never won it either!

 

I have 2 maps posted at HG that were built using the save to map trick, problem there is you can't script anything, the 2 maps I made work OK the first one "Buttu" is the best one "Arkenvale" could have been better, it needs more AI troops around their castles, but for some reason, when I tried to add more to the AI castles it would crash so I posted the map the way it is, still a good map but could have been better.

[EaglePrince 230]

It is time consuming indeed - to make a scenario like that... It may be better if few guys could share the work maybe. I would offer my help, but I cannot promise I would have enough time. :(