Outposts in skirmish maps?

[EaglePrince 230]

Each day you learn something new, but some day you learn something new about a game you taught you knew all bout it.

 

I was just trying out something, and I noticed I am able to build outpost in skirmish maps, so I came to an idea! What I was always trying to do was to make my opponents as strong as possible. Well, this way one can make his opponent even way too powerful for his appetites! :D The good thing is also that the computer uses those outposts, and send the army from there to attack you - regardless of whether he normally uses those troops or not. I don't like the idea of outposts when I am the one who has the benefits of it, but giving an outpost to our opponent could make the game rally interesting. We could place it somewhere close to that opponent, so it would look like you are fighting against opponent who is having powerful support.

 

Are you aware of some scenario or skirmish maps having those outposts? What are you experiences with them?

 

Of course, in games like this, there could be only two sides, I believe - it would be pointless to give those outposts to computer players in different team so they could fight each other, and the same applies to giving the outpost to your ally. I mean, that is just my opinion at this moment, I just always like to make thing harder to me, I find it more fun. :)

[Lord Vetka 63]

I did make a300x300 skirmish map for Extreme called "Drumburr" it's posted at Heaven Games. If you go to the stronghold & crusader downloads section and type Sir_Vet into the search box it will show all 24 of the Stronghold and Crusader maps that I have posted there.

 

I put in 3 keeps and gave each keep one of each outpost, the map worked very well, players had good comments about it, and it was played in multi player as well but the tester played against some people that had little experience with outposts.

 

The map itself is a natural looking map with iron and stone mixed in the middle, so you have to fight for it, and the sites are restricted, it sounds like what you were looking for.

 

You know how the outposts work, every time they release new troops it's twice as many as the last time, so they double every time, 2 then 4 then 8 then thousands...

 

Happy gaming!

[EaglePrince 230]

The thing is that I have never liked the idea of outposts, cause I don't want to fight with troops which I didn't train (with troops that I am receiving just like that). I like it more when I depend only of my own economy. This time I want to use outpost on a Stronghold Crusader skirmish map (not Stronghold Crusader Extreme), and not to give each player an outpost. I would be, for example, only one outpost belonging to only one player. Although I didn't now that each outpost produces twice is many troops as the last time. I will try to make this map - I only hope it will be a possible mission to win. :) I expect there will be blood to the knees! :D

 

If it doesn't turn out as I expected, I will simply delete the outpost from the map.

[Lord Vetka 63]

I am a little unsure of what you are doing, have you tried putting an outpost on a Crusader map?

 

Could you make a skirmish map in Extreme and only 1 outpost and still have the same experience of Crusader in version 1.2?

 

I guess I will dig out my Extreme disc and try some of these ideas, thanks.

[EaglePrince 230]

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I am a little unsure of what you are doing, have you tried putting an outpost on a Crusader map?

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Exactly that! I tried it, and it works, but that was only for test. Also, I made the outpost to produce as much as possible troops, and that was a real inferno. :) So I will make some nice skirmish map with the following story: one crusader need to fight back the upcoming Arabian attacks which are becoming stronger and stronger, as they get more and more reinforcements. So it will be advisable to not to take too much time, or else, you will be overran in some moment.

 

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Could you make a skirmish map in Extreme and only 1 outpost and still have the same experience of Crusader in version 1.2?

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I'm afraid I haven't tried that.

EDIT: I haven't tried that, but that wasn't my goal in fact, cause I don't like ability to throw stones at some point of the map, or arrows at some enemy army. That is why I don't like Stronghold Crusader Extreme so much, although it does have some nice option. For example, in SCH-E, one can heal his army, and that is pretty nice thing. I don't know, at least that is what I think about singleplayer, maybe in multiplayer it would be a different story. And truth to be told, I never gave SCH-E a chance...

 

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I guess I will dig out my Extreme disc and try some of these ideas, thanks.

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I'm glad if I gave you some idea for a new map. :)

Edited May 24, 2014 by EaglePrince

[Lord Vetka 63]

OK, now you got me, how did you put an outpost into Crusader, did you mod the game files?

 

Last night I made a simple test map in Extreme, 2 keeps and some resources and 1 Arabian outpost behind one keep, then played with a Caliph, it was interesting so I made a map with you in a semi protected spot and 2 keep close together opposite of you and placed 2 outposts in behind the 2 keeps beside each other. I put your supply of iron and stone out front so you will have to fight for it.

 

I then loaded the map and put in 2 Caliphs and allied them, it was good fun on the second try, I had 4000 gold they had 2000, the corners of their castles were touching and the invasions started from the beginning, but with 4000 gold I managed to stay in the game, as it went along I did need to use some of the extras and when it came to finally winning the game I did use the rocks to remove the outposts, I did try earlier, but not even close.

 

Later in the game the outposts have a lot of troops standing there, more with 2 outposts side by side, and put them in behind 2 castles, the invasions did get heavy but my position saved the day.

 

If you would like to try this map, send me an email or give me yours and I will send it over, I might see about uploading it to the site.

[EaglePrince 230]

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OK, now you got me, how did you put an outpost into Crusader, did you mod the game files?

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If you asked me this question yesterday, I wouldn't be able to answer this question for sure... Till yesterday I had Stronghold Crusader 1.3 version, but it seems like it was making me problems while playing multiplayer - the game was crashing whenever someone was trying to send me a map. Because of this, I have reinstalled the game, and now my game version is 1.2. This is how my outpost looks now, when I started the game in this test map with v1.2. It also doesn't produce troops now.

 

 

So, unfortunately, it has to be 1.3 version, or Extreme.

 

It does sound interesting - the game you played. I will send you my email in private message.

 

As about the way I placed this outpost - I placed it just like in Stronghold Crusader Extreme I would.

[Lord Vetka 63]

I don't have 1.3 installed and probably won't, but this idea of yours has got me thinking of more possibilities.

 

I will wait and see how you liked the map I sent you before getting into any more.

 

I changed the outposts to euro and played it again, this time I only used the gold extra and it was another fun challenge, and that was with the Snake and Richard, giving myself 4000 gold at the start.

[EaglePrince 230]

I've just finished the map, it really great! I've wrote about it in epic battles here.

 

After playing this one, I believe playing against Snake and Richard would be more challenging, as they would be using catapults, and I would be needing stone to repair towers and walls.

 

By the way, how did you set the outposts to produce troops? I mean, what army size, and did you set some delay time?

[Lord Vetka 63]

I saw the post, glad you liked the map, I used the outposts for each keep, keep #2 with outpost #2 and keep 3 with outpost #3, I never set troop amounts or times, I just placed the outposts for each keep.

 

I will change the outposts in my new map to euro and test it again, I will posts these 2 maps soon.

[EaglePrince 230]

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I never set troop amounts or times, I just placed the outposts for each keep.

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And it seems like the best option for now. I trying this once by setting the outpost to produce the largest armies possible, that didn't go well for me while trying to play the map. Like they say in my country: "feed the pigs and do not touch anything". :) (so you can't mess up anything)

[Lord Vetka 63]

I did not know you could make changes to the outposts, how did you make changes?

 

You will be happy to know that the maps have been uploaded to the site, I did move the keep and put in the euro outposts on the second map.

 

The next map is done and lets say it's a bit harder, I gave my ally an outpost and we went quite a bit farther, but when my ally went down the focus was on me, and then I went down:)

 

I changed the outposts to euro and tried the map again, Knights and swordsmen from the start, it was overwhelming, I will post these 2 maps soon and you can try your luck, I will have to sharpen my war skills.

 

Here we might say" don't fix it if it's not broke"

[EaglePrince 230]

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how did you make changes?

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You need to click at the outpost after you place it, and then you have the options to change the size of army being produced in this outpost, and which army type you want to produce this outpost.

 

 

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You will be happy to know that the maps have been uploaded to the site

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Great, going to download them! Oh, and by the way, I am subscribed to receive notifications after you upload something... :)

 

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The next map is done and lets say it's a bit harder, I gave my ally an outpost and we went quite a bit farther, but when my ally went down the focus was on me, and then I went down:)

I changed the outposts to euro and tried the map again, Knights and swordsmen from the start, it was overwhelming, I will post these 2 maps soon and you can try your luck, I will have to sharpen my war skills.

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Oh, but when something like this happens, it is the right moment to request my aid, so we could together wipe them out! I'm just joking now - who knows, maybe they wipe us both out, but that would be interesting to try.

 

You see, I was thinking about making maps for two players to fight against computer together, but it was always too easy somehow... If you play with one opponent, then maximum number of opponents is six, and that is three to one, which is not so hard. It is interesting, that's for sure, but it is less challenge. Also, when you play with your mom, for example, or your brother who hates to lose, there is not other option that to play allied with them. :D

[Lord Vetka 63]

Thanks for the info, I tried adjusting the outpost last night, I played my new 5 player map and my ally has a Euro outpost and I set mine to large, by the end of the game I had hundreds of troops at the outpost and my ally and me were finishing off the last Caliph, it was to easy. I'm sure the player does not need an outpost.

 

I put an outpost into your allies camp, it can be deleted if you want to play multi, or let your ally have some fun.

 

I will be posting the map today or tomorrow, maybe we can have a game together, it might be fun, I don't play multi very often, it would definitely beat having an ally who just keeps sending groups of troops to their deaths, "your mom probably does a better job", he makes for a good decoy though. =)

[EaglePrince 230]

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I'm sure the player does not need an outpost.

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I agree, that is the reason why I wasn't playing Extreme before, but I wasn't aware of this option. This way game can get pretty exciting. It is always better to reduce size of enemy army coming from the outpost, than giving me an outpost. At least that's what I thing at this moment. :)

 

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I put an outpost into your allies camp, it can be deleted if you want to play multi, or let your ally have some fun.

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I am aware of that, but maybe it would be better to upload two versions of the map at once, and this one for multiplayer to be tagged in some way? Because, if we both have different maps with the same name, there might have problems starting the game.

 

I look forward to download your new map. :)

 

As about games with human ally, it is indeed easier. The only thing is that, in one moment we both have huge armies compared to the enemies, so sieges become too easy, but with those outposts... I can smell there will be great battles. :)

[Lord Vetka 63]

The new map "Ivrkard"is now posted, have an extreme time!

 

I think if people want to play the map in multi, the setups would be to many, so the best thing to do would be to set the map up the way you agree and make the adjustments and send the map to whoever will be playing, tag it as Ivrkard M.

 

You can smell great battles, I agree I've smelled a few already, it can get very intense.

 

I saw your thread about gameranger, I don't have it installed at the moment, and only played Crusader once with a powerplayer who was heavily restricted, he could only use 2 types of troops and I still got my but kicked.

 

I hope you enjoy "Ivrkard"

[EaglePrince 230]

Saw it, played it, had an extreme time!

 

First time I tried I had difficulties to start up my economy some parts of it being set to fire. Later tried to play again with 4,000 gold, but Crusader game. This time, for change, Caliph was attacking Lionheart first, so I made it! I trained some troops to protect my castle, and I sent troops some of my to protect Lionheart just in time. It was a pretty bad situation in his castle - it was all in fire, and Arabian swordsmen were walking inside of it destroying his economy (in those moments castle wasn't burning)... I sent my crossbowmen on his tower, while I also had to protect them from the swordsmen with my knight (I had those few knights from beginning). Once I defeated Caliphs troops there, I continued to send him some more troops just to ensure he will stay all right. Soon after, I and finished my castle, and as Caliph was sending lots of troops, I train some more knights to send them beyond Caliphs castles, to destroy the outposts. I trained about 30 knights for this task, although they weren't enough to destroy all three of them. In this first attack I destroyed two of them, the second attack was a failure, while the third one was successful, and I did make it to destroy the third outpost. Then it became easier, and all three of them fell one by one.

 

It was a really interesting game.

 

As about multiplayer - that is why can be better to play with more players, that way it can be more balanced. For example, I was playing with Charles and Iso, and while I was better at Stronghold Crusader, Iso was better at Stronghold. But that was making any problems, as we used to play on unbalanced maps, or free for all games, or we were able to make the teams to be balanced. Those free for all games were pretty interesting - especially in Stronghold, where one can make an alliance with someone else, and also he can betray his ally. It was possible you to attack someone, offer him to surrender, after you defeat his army, so he would continue to fight on your side. Unless he crosses you. This is why it was important not to put your self in a bed situation - if you attack your next opponent, and you lose most of your attacking army, he may take advantage, and switch sides, or simply desert you. I was making plans how to force Charles not to betray me, as it was real fun to him. :)

 

As about this game on your new map - here are some screenshots.

• my caste
  
• Richard the Lionheart
  
• scores
  

[Lord Vetka 63]

That's Extremely good to hear, glad you enjoyed the map.

 

You built a good and large castle, had your economy going great, the poor Lionheart gets the brunt of attacks again=)

 

I gave the map a try with the Euro outposts and Euro enemies, I was overwhelmed fairly quickly, my war skills are a little slow, I'm not into heavy stressing battles like I used to.

 

What would you like to see for a multiplay map? 6 or 8 players, maybe some with outposts some with out, protected areas and high ground lots of resources easy to get or restricted and have to fight for them or...

 

I was thinking of making a map with 2 or 3 prebuilt enemy castles and a few spots for you and an Ally or 2, it might give it a feel of a war scenario, the AI does not play in a prebuilt castle, but he does use the economy you build for him and the outposts would be like having invasions scripted.

[EaglePrince 230]

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I gave the map a try with the Euro outposts and Euro enemies.

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Could you tell me which crusader enemies did you fight against, and at which positions were they? And who was your ally, and how much gold did you start with?

 

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What would you like to see for a multiplay map? 6 or 8 players, maybe some with outposts some with out, protected areas and high ground lots of resources easy to get or restricted and have to fight for them or...

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I guess six player map would be good - it would be easier to have powerful opponents, and they do not need to be too close to us. It is more interested when we teams are separated in different corners, just like in your previous maps, and I believe it would be harder to achieve in eight player map.

 

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I was thinking of making a map with 2 or 3 prebuilt enemy castles and a few spots for you and an Ally or 2, it might give it a feel of a war scenario, the AI does not play in a prebuilt castle, but he does use the economy you build for him and the outposts would be like having invasions scripted.

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As about this matter, I see you are more experience in making skirmish maps and scenarios. The only thing I am concerned about, is that those enemies would be rebuilding destroyed buildings, and they would be replacing lost troops on their walls. In the other hand, if this one was humans ally, than human could repair his walls and towers, and even rebuild them. As about lost troops - you could send some troops on this allies walls. How does he act when it comes to building farms, woodcutters, and other buildings outside his castle? Would he build them if necessary? Nevertheless, I do not doubt I would have a lot of fun making a map you suggested, and all I can think of in the beginning of the game is saving my life - it is indeed the latest phase of the game, when it comes to killing the opponents. :)

[Lord Vetka 63]

If I remember correctly, my Ally was a Lionheart, and I had 2 Lionhearts and Fredrick as my enemy and put Fredrick out front, gave myself 4000 gold, I was overwhelmed by the quick start to invasions with knights and swordsmen from the outposts.

 

I will take a look and see if 8 keeps will fit, 4 at the top and 4 at the bottom, with 8 keeps you can choose to play any lesser number, if I map the map flat with no high ground for the keeps it will work, maybe it will work with 2 keeps in each corner. With 8 keeps you can play the same map with almost any combination, from 2 to 8 players.

 

That is the disappointing thing about prebuilding castles for the AI, they do not rebuild buildings or place farms and such, you can build in an economy for them and make it better, and they will move troops around. If you place to many troops on the castle then when the game starts he will take some of those troops and send them your way.

 

If you want to see the AI using a prebuilt castle, you could download my Crusader war scenario"Darshen" the enemy castle is prebuilt with an economy running and scripted invasions. The map is posted at HeavenGames.

 

I will play around and see what I can come up with, I do have an SH2 map to make first.

[EaglePrince 230]

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If I remember correctly, my Ally was a Lionheart, and I had 2 Lionhearts and Fredrick as my enemy and put Fredrick out front, gave myself 4000 gold, I was overwhelmed by the quick start to invasions with knights and swordsmen from the outposts.

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That sounds like pretty hard mission, but I am gonna try. There is also a lot of luck in these games with outposts. If the first units produced from these outposts are knights and swordsmen, that you will surely be in a huge problem. In the other hand, of spearmen come out first, that you have some more time to prepare for other attacks. I believe the of of success would be to follow what's going on in the north, and see if swordsmen and knights are coming, so you could place some pitch before it is too late.

 

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I will take a look and see if 8 keeps will fit, 4 at the top and 4 at the bottom, with 8 keeps you can choose to play any lesser number, if I map the map flat with no high ground for the keeps it will work, maybe it will work with 2 keeps in each corner. With 8 keeps you can play the same map with almost any combination, from 2 to 8 players.

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It sounds nice, I'm looking forward to play that map, you're gonna make. As about high ground and other, I just have trust in you! I am sure you will make in such a way, that it will be fun to play.

 

But if you ask me for some ideas... I was thinking about a map with marches in the middle, and having some players on high ground (medium level), and some in the low. I'm not saying you to make a map like this, but if you do create one, I know it would be way better than mine. :) Maybe we both make this one. :)

 

I have just downloaded both your skirmish maps uploaded to Heaven Games. They look pretty cool.

 

EDIT: I've just fought against the Wolf, Lionheart and Frederick, with Richards by my side on map Ivrkard. Wolf was in the north-east, Frederick next to him, and Lionheart in the west of Frederick. My castle was under pressure almost all the the time - I was the only one they were attacking. I have managed to survive these attacks, although they did manage to destroy some parts of my economy, and in one attack, they destroyed my granary. I was struggling with popularity, and although I had built inns, it took a while until I started taking taxes. Just after I built defenses good enough, Richard killed one of our opponents. After some time, Lionheart (the opponent) was weakened, as I sent some troops to finish him, but Richard was faster then me this time, and he killed him before me. The Wolf was the last standing enemy - I destroyed his outpost with knights, after what Richards and I both attacked him from two sides: me from the south, and Richard from the west. Soon we overcame his defenses, and he fell. This time I was faster than Richard!

Some would say the game was easy, but surviving under those heavy attacks was not an easy task at all. :)

Edited June 1, 2014 by EaglePrince

[Lord Vetka 63]

I sent you an email with 4 maps, 3 are for Extreme, the + map has 2 outposts each, and 1 is a crusader map that I made a while ago, I sent it because it sounds like what you said about what you might build, if that's what you are looking for tell me and I will make it in Extreme, any changes let me know.

 

It doesn't sound like you had an easy time with that setup, when I tried something similar I got my but kicked, as long as you had a good time!

[EaglePrince 230]

Thanks, I will give them a try. :) As about the map - that wasn't an easy game, considering one could survive upcoming attacks. Although my they did not reach my lord, they were indeed damaging my economy, until I was able to repel all their attacks.

[Lord Vetka 63]

I did a test map, put 8 outposts at the top of the map with no keep, then put 2 keeps at the bottom 1 for me and 1 for an ally, unfortunately, the AI troops just stood at the outposts waiting to be told what to do.

 

After that failed attempt I made a new 400x400 map, in the NE corner I raised the ground a bit and placed 4 of each outpost behind 1 keep and then put 2 keeps into the SW corner on more raised ground, gave the AI keep a European outpost, and no outpost for you, I think you might need one this time.

 

I tested with the "Wolf as my ally and the "Wazer" as our enemy, lets say we didn't last very long, then I put "Richard" in as my ally and the Wazer for the enemy, I worked hard at keeping Richard alive, but not to be, then I was the target and managed a few more years before my time was up. Very intense!

 

Anyone like to test this map?

[EaglePrince 230]

There where is challenge, there I come! Count on me. :)